Friday, October 12, 2007

More clowning at the rodeo

What are we, a week into the season? Jordin Tootoo doesn't leave his feet here, but oh what a 12-step charge:

This mess certainly deserves more of a post than this, but (paid) writing duty calls. Take it away in the comments...

37 Comments:

At 12:14 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous PJ said...

I can see the charge, I can see the head targeting, I can see the unsuspecting player with is head down, but I can't see how this should be anything but a 2 minute charging penalty.

Weller should have gotten 2 minutes for roughing too, and that should have been the end of the play from my opinion.

 
At 12:22 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Nick said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 12:23 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Nick said...

Not the ugliest play I've seen tootoo make, but typical.

Tootoo is a thug. One of these days someone is going to go all Todd Bertuzzi on him.

 
At 12:29 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Brushback said...

Only because I'm a Hartford Wolf Pack fan-- it's nice seeing Weller (the former Wolf Pack captain) be the one to step up and respond..

 
At 12:36 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1) Clearly that deserved a charging call, 2) Def lead with his shoulder looking to make contact with his head 3) took a dive when Weller caught him

The runs guys are taking at each other is getting out of hand these days.

 
At 12:38 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Daniel said...

I was almost upset when I saw the Coyotes player who watched the hit, keep skating, but the replays showed it was Weller and he did the right thing. He didn't clock him and he shouldn't have, but he did get him pretty good.

Someone should ring Tootoo's bell though. He is tough and all, but if that was him, he would have been irate. If people at the games enjoy this shit, go watch MMA or other crap where people are only out to kill each other. My hockey watching has declined a lot, cheap hits and intent to injure are a big factor. I like hockey because its pretty much self policed, the players generally respect each other, but it looks like its declining.

 
At 12:42 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous PPP said...

That hit's stuck in the NHL's grey area because Tootoo does make a clear attempt to drive his shoulder into the Coyotes' head but he doesn't jump and the head is down so the league likely won't do anything.

It doesn't change the fact that he was trying to hurt him and it was a dirty play.

 
At 1:01 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Tom L said...

I'm done with debating the specifics of these hits, b/c they are irrelevant and detract from the issue of whether this sort of behaviour (grey area or not) should be a part of the game.

I've made my mind quite clear on this sort of thing, hits to the head are not to be tolerated in any way. There are going to be avoidable ones, for sure, but these side-on drive-bys are not in that category.

So, 2 for charging, 5 for hitting to the head, a game, match and a suspension.

If Tootoo does it again in a calender year, he's banned from the league.

Guys like him get away with this stuff b/c the rules punish the retaliator and the league doesn't and can't dispense justice accordingly.

Ta,

 
At 1:07 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Jonathan said...

Yet another hit that shows the clear need for the NHL to legislate head-hitting out of the game. Otherwise, aside from the charge, this was a legal hit. Just like Scott Stevens hits were legal.
As an aside, classic turtling move from Tootoo. Way to look like Bryan Marchment.

 
At 1:08 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous penaltyshots.ca said...

Tom Benjamin:

"The minute Gary Bettman believes more people will watch hockey if gratuitous violence is eliminated, it will be eliminated."

Seems like a spot on comment to me. Violence sells. Look at the rise of the UFC.

Suspensions have proven to be all but meaningless. They have not been and likely will never be a real deterent, no matter the length. If they want to eliminate players who pull stunts like Boulerice and Simon, then they need to go after team's who draft them and start ending the careers of the thugs before the thugs start ending careers themselves.

Personally I have no problem with this instance (even if an injury did occur), other than it was charging that should maybe have been given a major for. This hit is part of hockey and is why the term "keep your head up" exists.

 
At 1:12 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Peter said...

I need to see it again to see if he jumped up into the player--I thought I saw daylight between Tootoo's skates and the ice. Someone will die in one of these hits one day.

 
At 1:24 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Jeff said...

Hmm, I guess I'll be the lone dissenter.

I'll give you that he took too many strides. It was a definite charge.

But he had his elbows tucked in, led with his shoulder, and it's debatable whether he was "targeting" the head. It could just as easily been that he was "targeting" the shoulder and missed. The play was happening at extremely high speed.

But he didn't leave his feet, the guy had the puck...I dunno, I don't think this is that big a deal.

Personally I think Weller's clothesline was more dangerous.

 
At 1:26 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger James Mirtle said...

I'm not sure you can have a more blatant, or dangerous, charge into a player.

Five minutes for charging, game misconduct, under the current rules. Throw Weller out, too, for that garbage afterward.

I think others are right when it comes to hits to the head; that's a change we're going to start to see more and more support for.

 
At 1:41 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Django said...

Thank God Tootoo is alright. For a second there I thought a sniper in the rafters took him down.

 
At 1:42 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Bruce said...

Cheap shot ... five for charging IMO. Tootoo took six steps and whether or not he went for the head, that's what he got. To me a head shot that is part of an identifiable foul (charging in this case) should be an automatic major penalty. Instead Tootoo got nothing, and Weller got the match penalty for his reaction. (Which was a penalty for sure, but understandable ... if I were a Phoenix fan, I'd be pissed if nobody challenged Tootoo after that.)

Tootoo then pulled the second best turtle act I've seen all week, behind only Matt Cooke against Ben Eager the other night. Now that was pathetic.

 
At 1:44 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Stan the Caddy said...

Tootoo reminds me of Claude Lemieux, I imagine that's where he learned that turtle move.

 
At 1:46 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Adam C said...

You could call a 2 minute minor for charging and be consistent with previous seasons. You could call 5 and a game and still not be out of line. Or you could back up the 'new standard' on head hits and add a few extra games. I guess we'll find out.

I agree that Weller should face some supplementary discipline too. At first look I thought he was just backing up his teammate - and I'm more than okay with that - but the slow motion replay makes it look innocuous. If you consider the speed at which he clotheslined Tootoo, he could easily have put him in the hospital.

It's a shame; I'd like to cheer for Tootoo, but he pulls this shit all the time.

 
At 2:03 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Keith said...

The two most hilarious parts of this was Tootoo playing dead when Weller clotheslined him, and then Tootoo, of all people, having the gall to whine to the media about Weller's cheapshot.

Frankly, Weller deserves a medal.

 
At 2:08 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger PB said...

If we had PJ's solution, I would have written about it in a very different way.

I didn't consider the charging penalty until about an hour ago...

Weller, in his mind, needed to do what he needed to do. However, if he would have waited for a better opportunity - square off for an altercation or something. The match penalty business really messed things up for me...

 
At 2:55 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger rickibear said...

Weller had the puck. TooToo did not jump. TooToo missed him he should not get anything. Heh Mike Modanno cross checked TooToo across the head and got nothing.
If weller does not get 40 games for the todd bertuzzi steve moore renactment then Colin Campbell is showing he is racist aqgainst natives.

 
At 3:04 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't remember watching and rewinding and watching again so much something that's not porn ever.

Yeah it's a real shame that Weller got the penalty, I guess it was right that he should but it's a shame because Tootoo got away with a real cynical, dangerous play.

I agree with a previous poster that there is all too much of this going on. I am all for fighting and physical play, but anything involving a deliberate, cynical attempt to injure like I think shouldn't be in the game, particularly when it is aimed at the head.

Even legal hits in centre ice like Scott Steven's shouldn't have a part in the game. A lot of people really underestimate how much concussions can affect people - the players go back to playing again after a couple of weeks so you presume they are totally recovered, but you don't see the depression or the insomnia or the fatigue (among countless other possible symptoms) that happen when they are off the ice that persist for months or years and in many cases permanently afterwards.

 
At 3:21 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Rod said...

That was a dangerous, reckless charge by Tootoo. How he escaped without penalty is beyond me. Weller's reaction was also dangerous, but he didn't appear to grab Tootoo from behind. Weller getting thrown out should be sufficient.

Here's the problem with making all head shots an automatic penalty. Some players already endanger their careers by turning to the boards to draw a penalty. Some players dive to get a tripping, hooking, and interference calls. Do we really need to give incentive for someone to lower their head for a measly major?

I realize the NFL outlawed head shots. There's a fairly big difference between tackling and body checking though. They're nowhere near the same.

That said, I like the idea Bruce mentioned above--a head shot combined with an identifiable foul results in a major (at least). Whether it's an elbow or a shoulder, charging head shots are simply too dangerous to be considered a legal aspect of the game.

Enact that rule, and then have standard suspensions for the players that accumulate that type of penalty in a season. Supplementary discipline for the blatant cheap shots--like Downie's attempt to injure--would still result in additional suspensions on top of the automatic suspension. Meanwhile, reckless players like Tootoo would be reigned in. Even if a single incident wasn't dangerous enough to warrant a supplementary suspension, the automatic suspension kicks in.

 
At 3:25 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Jonathan said...

Also on the play note what happens to Winnick after the hit - both Greg DeVries (#7) and Greg Zanon (#5) go over and give him little shots. Classless plays by a couple of guys who've been around long enough to know better.

 
At 3:30 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Rod said...

rickibear: First of all, Weller did not have the puck--Tootoo hit a different player. Watch it again. Second, you can't deny that Tootoo charged. Third, Tootoo didn't miss--the replay from behind the net clearly shows shoulder hit to the head. Watch it again. It was a reckless play by Tootoo. Finally, equating Weller/Tootoo to Bertuzzi/Moore is ridiculous.

 
At 3:42 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Aaron said...

After reading a couple of the comments on this post I really hope that the Preds move out of Nashville. It's become quite clear that the fans there want violence not hockey. Unless the team or the league stop them, guys who show a propensity for this type of act (Simon, Boulerice, Tootoo, etc) are going to end someone's career at the very least. It's either that, or one of these things carries over off the ice and a real fight breaks out. Let's say some player of no consquence takes that liberty with Thornton, or Crosby, or Lecavalier, or someone like that. Imagine being a teammate and watching your Stanley Cup hopes laying on the ice motionless. Said goon gets thrown out of the game before anyone can start a fight with him and you don't see this team again until next year. Not one of the 18 skaters might wait outside the locker room for a "word" with their opponent? It's clear something really, really bad is coming and I wish I could say I was surprised that the league doesn't seem interested in doing anything about it.

 
At 3:56 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Earl Sleek said...

After reading a couple of the comments on this post I really hope that the Preds move out of Nashville. It's become quite clear that the fans there want violence not hockey.

Wow. I'm no Preds fan, but I sure hope the decision to move or keep the team goes a bit deeper than judging the first few fans to comment on the internet.

Can we disband the Maple Leafs? I know a few morons who wear blue.

 
At 4:43 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Aaron said...

I'm not suggesting there is anything inherently wrong with the people of Nashville. It's just that I'm a Sharks fan and have seen their act the last two years in the playoffs. Beyond the thirst for violence there's an overall institutional ignorance towards the game and history of hockey among the fans. Look at the way they reacted to Modano becoming the top goal scorer among all US born players. Besides, what is this like the 15th time we've seen a youtube clip of a Jordin Tootoo cheap shot? The guy never defends himself and yet still he is probably their most popular player. I know there are some great Preds fans because I've had some back and forth on other blogs in the past, but the majority just don't seem to represent themselves well. I put a lot of blame on the Preds as an organization and the NHL for not doing enough to make sure the game was marketed and played correctly. Add it to the list of reasons Gary Bettman is beloved by David Stern and Bud Selig (when asked for comment, Roger Goodell asked "who is Gary Bettman?").

 
At 5:01 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Nick said...

After reading a couple of the comments on this post I really hope that the Preds move out of Nashville

Yea, I'm sure Tootoo would be the next wayne gretzky if he just wasn't in Nashville.

 
At 5:04 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tootoo hit was legal, its the players fault for not keeping his head up

 
At 5:05 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Doogie said...

Tell me again why the instigator rule is a good thing for hockey?

 
At 5:58 PM, October 12, 2007, Blogger Stan the Caddy said...

Weller had the puck. TooToo did not jump. TooToo missed him he should not get anything.

Where does one start? First, Weller was never hit by Tootoo in this skirmish, Weller was simply sticking his neck out for a teammate, something Tootoo would never do, I'm sure.

Second, Tootoo did not jump, but he did take at least five strides, which is by definition a charging penalty.

He has a reputation as a dirty player who seeks to severely injure his peers, he gives no respect and deserves none. I have no problem with what Weller did, especially since Tootoo has a history of not standing up for his actions (ie turtle). I'm sure if he got his faced flattened, he'd think twice about taking a run like that again and just play his position.

 
At 6:00 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous cupster33 said...

Just keep the cheap career ending hits out of the game and simply keep it clean (i that so hard?)these guys are taught this from birth. If a player can't control himself he can simply go play in the bush league where he belongs.(that should be the punishment btw) and for those that think tootoo hit was legal you are just admitting (you really don't know much about hockey)and you basically condoan cheap hits. Iam all for hard hitting physical hockey just keep it legal and respect your fellow NHL hockey players.

 
At 11:39 PM, October 12, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regardless of who does or doesn't have his head up, Tootoo took enough strides to be tagged for charging. Can anyone seriously argue he's not a 4th-line cheapshotter with marginal talent? He should be suiting up in Loon Lake.

 
At 3:32 AM, October 13, 2007, Blogger Bill Needle said...

It's too bad Tootoo doesn't skate that fast for a scoring opportunity.

 
At 9:14 AM, October 13, 2007, Blogger Kirk said...

It was probably a charge, but Tootoo is 5'6" fer cryin' out loud. The only player he can hit in the head is Kariya. Maybe.

 
At 10:57 AM, October 13, 2007, Blogger Justin said...

I don't believe that Tootoo's past record should be a factor in assessing whether or not this particular play was a penalty. It was definitely a charge, but the retaliatory clothesline was much more violent. I don't think that any of the people accusing Tootoo of taking a dive have ever taken a forearm to the neck from a professional hockey player when they weren't looking. Tootoo deserved a major, but Weller deserves what he got, and a suspension as well.

 
At 12:24 AM, October 15, 2007, Blogger J. Michael Neal said...

I agree with a previous poster that there is all too much of this going on. I am all for fighting and physical play, but anything involving a deliberate, cynical attempt to injure like I think shouldn't be in the game, particularly when it is aimed at the head.

This paragraph makes no sense to me. What is fighting, but a deliberate attempt to injure another player by hitting them in the head? Why is administering concussions acceptable if you are doing with a fist instead of an elbow?

 

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