Saturday, April 19, 2008

Quote of the Day

Everyone talks about how classless I am, but I guess Fatso there just forgot to shake my hand.
— Sean Avery on Martin Brodeur
"I shook everybody's hand but one," Brodeur said.

Avery said he was fully prepared to reach out to Brodeur, but didn't get the chance.

"Everyone talks about how much class I don't have, well it's the end of the series and men go to war against each other," Avery said. "I guess he forgot to shake my hand. I don't know if anyone saw that. Of course I was going to shake his hand."
A very impressive performance by the Rangers in this one, winning in five games despite not having home-ice advantage. New York beat New Jersey 11 times in 13 games this season.
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68 Comments:

At 3:26 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sean Avery is Douche

 
At 3:27 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

sean avery is a douche

 
At 3:28 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger AndrewS said...

I agree, sean avery is garbage.

 
At 3:44 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sean Avery is going on to the second round and a $6million payday July 1.
Martin Brodeur is going home to the woman who used to be married to his brother. Or was it his ex-wife's sister.

 
At 4:21 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

sean avery is also a very effective player for the ny rangers. he got the devils, from the coach on down, completely off their game during this series while scoring 3 goals. he absorbed lots of punishment tonight without retaliating, especially when setting up the nyr third goal. and it was the killer goal.

after hearing all the devils' whining during the series i remembered, didn't the devils used to have a guy named one claude lemieux?

 
At 5:05 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Martin Brodeur goes home wearing three rings, an Olypmic gold medal plus three Vezinas.

I still can't read Avery's name on the Stanley Cup.

 
At 5:16 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

check back in early june

 
At 6:49 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger mike said...

Brodeur is a far bigger punk than Sean Avery. Just ask his father-in-law about that.

The only guys who showed up to play for the Devils in this series were John Madden and Patty Elias. Lots of passengers in this series, and lots of idiots (like Clarkson or Coach Sutter) who were far too concerned with what Avery was up to.

 
At 7:16 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Mr. Plank said...

sean avery is also a very effective player for the ny rangers.

Hate him or love him, this guy got into the head of Marty (evidenced by the lack of a handshake at the end of the series).

That is quality.

 
At 7:48 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger ddawwidd said...

Yea, he is effective, but I still don't like this type of "effectivity". It's so easy to act like a moron whole series and then whine that such actions really offended somebody. And, oh, using names like "Fatso" is another way to show Avery's Mount-Everest-like huge class and sportsmanship.

Having said that, it's easy to offend Brodeur. I still remember when years ago he didn't go out on ice in Montreal after being chosen as a first star in a game New Jersey lost.

 
At 8:00 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

it looks very much like Mr. Douche will be making his way to the Burgh for round 2.

and a Mr. Roberts will be happily waiting to take his ass down.

 
At 8:42 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Jonathan said...

Sean Avery is an effec tive hockey player. He's also classless, as evidenced by his quotes and his play on the ice.

Regarding off-ice morals, it's much more difficult to judge, because we don't have the information, and frankly, it isn't something we have a right to judge. Whine all you want about Brodeur, but I doubt Avery works in soup kitchens on his days off or has a happy, stable marriage for that matter.

Additionally, however effective Avery is, he'll never be in that sure-fire hall-of-famer class that Brodeur is.

 
At 8:52 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger mike said...

Brodeur's Hall of Fame bust should be of either Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer. Or Claude Lemieux or Brian Rafalski, or Ken Daneyko or Scott Gomez.

They are the ones who allowed this chump the ability to ride on their backs to win three Stanley Cups.

He never beat Mike Richter when it mattered, except with a Canadian Olympic team whose roster was far better than any other country's in that year's Olympiad.

Say what you want about Avery; the guy is performing at a high level again in the playoffs for the Rangers...

 
At 10:07 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous MikeP said...

Hm. Brodeur's a chump because he couldn't beat one of the other best goalies in the world, but Avery's a hero because his team is advancing to the second round? OK, quick vote, on your team you can have one of: Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Jarome Iginla, or Sean Avery, whom do you take?

Yeah, thought so.

 
At 10:41 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Ian said...

wow, what a choice there, i take ANY of the above except for sean avery. is that really a question to ask? what an idiot.

gary roberts and jarkko ruutu will be putting a stop to his shenanigans in round 2. maybe we should make an over under bet on how many times avery pusses out for a fight AGAIN. my vote is 4.

you say its a smart maneuver by him to draw a penalty, i say he's a vagina and isnt willing to fight anybody. the latter always seems to prove correct.

 
At 11:08 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous brian said...

how does winning 3 stanley cups or winning a vezina make you exempt from sportsmanship?

what's in the game is in the game, and when it's over, it's over. it's one of the many things many of us love about this game; the post-series handshake is one of the great traditions in hockey, something you don't see in other sports.

avery stopped in line to shake brodeur's hand, brodeur did not acknowledge and skated past, thus lowering himself to whatever low level of sportsmanship he claims sean avery to be on.

 
At 11:11 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous penaltyshots.ca said...

I know one thing, in this series at least, I would have rather had Avery on my team than Brodeur.

That's Brodeur's worst performance since... Oh yeah, last year. Remember he was so bad he thought new equipment mid-series might help?

 
At 11:14 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger mike said...

I don't recall calling Avery a hero...it's Devils fans here offering up Brodeur's past achievements as some sort of proof that he didn't suck in this series. Or as some sort of justification for his lack of class on the handshake line.

Avery had five points in five games and got into the heads of the Devils' players and coaches. That doesn't qualify him for the Hall of Fame, it just means he was an effective player in a five-game trouncing whose mouth was backed up by on-ice performance.

As far as the Penguins fans are concerned, be careful what you wish for--you're probably goint to get the second-greatest Penguin of all time (Jagr) facing off against the third-greatest (Crosby) as the real focus here in the next round. Not on some sideshow created by silly trashtalkers like Gary Roberts and Sean Avery.

 
At 11:23 AM, April 19, 2008, Blogger mike said...

Also to MikeP--I did not mention Avery being in the same class as elite players like Iginla, Ovechkin, and Malkin, so I have no idea why you would assert that I did.

I am saying, to clarify, that Marty Brodeur is the most overrated goalie in the NHL. And he is a routine playoff choker to boot, whose three Cups on his resume must be measured against the countless times he has lost in the playoff to lower-seeded teams while backstopping what was arguably the best team in the NHL at that point in time. With the defense that the Devils had and Curtis Joseph in that net, or Mike Richter, or Pattie Roy, the Devils would have rivalled the Canadien dynasties that won four consecutive Cups in the 1970s.

The three Cups they have won are more of a positive reflection on their excellent GM and President, Darth Lamoriello, along with their great defense.

 
At 11:33 AM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When Brodeur didn't shake Avery's hand I think he sunk to his level.

Except Avery is advancing to the second round.

 
At 12:10 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I get all misty-eyed when I recall how Brodeur bravely led the Canadian Olympic team to preliminary round victories over Kabukistan, Lower Mimwabwe, and Togo in 2002.
Ask Claude Julien what a great guy Brodeur is.

 
At 12:47 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger ddawwidd said...

-> The three Cups they have won are more of a positive reflection on their excellent GM and President, Darth Lamoriello, along with their great defense.

So why that excellent GM and President, Darth Lamoriello stuck to this choker? I mean, I'm not the biggest Brodeur fan, but let's keep things in perspective. It's not a matter of Martin "Been Ugly Divorced And Can't Stop A Thing" Brodeur and Sean "Second Coming of Gretzky and Jesus Christ" Avery.

BTW - I think Bob McKenzie of TSN has a fairly good piece on this one.

 
At 1:26 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Mike said...

Just because Avery is a douche doesn't mean he didn't play well in the series, and was a big part of the reason why the Rangers won.

And just because Brodeur has won a jillion trophies and is a great goalie doesn't mean he isn't acting like a douche now.

Avery's job was to throw the other team off their game, and he was extraordinarily successful. If Brodeur can't figure it out, add idiot to the list. You think Avery is going to treat the Pens with reference?

 
At 1:28 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Heather B. said...

I still remember when years ago he didn't go out on ice in Montreal after being chosen as a first star in a game New Jersey lost.

I think it's pretty standard for visiting players to not go out on the ice for three stars, win or lose, isn't it? I can't recall ever seeing a visitor player skate out.

I don't see Avery making any effort to shake Marty's hand either and him calling into question someone's level of class while throwing out a second grade insult like fatso is so ridiculous that I can't believe people would even attempt to make Avery the good guy in this story. Insults have been flying from one side of this rivalry all season and it wasn't Brodeur's. Was Broduer being a poor sport? Yeah, probably. But if he has no respect for Avery after this season I'm certainly not going to blame him. I'm right there with him.

And defense and goaltending go hand in hand. They make each other great. The Devils aren't even in the playoff picture this season if Brodeur isn't dragging them there.

 
At 1:37 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

I am saying, to clarify, that Marty Brodeur is the most overrated goalie in the NHL. And he is a routine playoff choker to boot

Martin Brodeur career statistics:

Regular season: 968 GP, 538 wins, 2.20 GAA, .914 Sv%

Playoffs: 169 GP, 95 wins, 1.96 GAA, .919 Sv%

Active playoff wins leaders:
Brodeur 95
Hasek 65
Joseph 63
Osgood 46
Giguere 33

Active Stanley Cup champions (starters):
Brodeur 3
Giguere 1
Ward 1
Khabibulin 1
Hasek 1
Osgood 1

Active Olympic champions (starters):
Brodeur 1
Holmqvist 1
Hasek 1

Some choker.

 
At 1:39 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When Avery was acting like an idiot the other day in front of Marty, he should have done the honourable thing and smashed the puke in the face with his blocker. A busted jaw would have shut him up.
Avery is going to piss of the wrong guy one of these days and end up in a world of hurt.

 
At 1:58 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Interchangeable Parts said...

When Brodeur didn't shake Avery's hand I think he sunk to his level.

Another way to look at the situation is this: when Brodeur didn't shake Avery's hand, he made a stand about respecting what the handshake line stands for. It would be disingenuous for him to pretend he has respect for Avery, when both players have made their mutual disrespect very well known.

 
At 4:31 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Jonathan said...

I think I'd have a hard time shaking Sean Avery's hand in any situation, nevermind after having played against him.

 
At 4:42 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Steve Patterson said...

Avery is effective but that doesn't mean that he demands respect. As Don Cherry once said about Ulf Samuelsson, "one day he'll get his", and with Ulf, he eventually did thanks to Tie Domi's one-punch knockout.

It'll come to Avery too one day, but it might take a few years. I just don't know why Clarkson, Rupp, Asham, White, or any other Devil just let Avery run loose and make a mockery of things. Tough guys always complain about the instigator, but sometimes if it's late in a game they just have to ignore it and go after the guy.

 
At 5:10 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger I Have Kasparaitis said...

"How does winning 3 stanley cups or winning a vezina make you exempt from sportsmanship?" It doesn't but it doesn't justify the fact that Avery constantly showed a lack of respect and sportsmanship to Brodeur. Avery makes that smart remark back about calling him a "fatso" doesn't make him classy, either. Avery is a nuisance and thinks he is better than everyone else. He refuses to repsect others and if I was Brodeur I wouldn't have either. Brodeur was making a statement by not shaking his hand and obviously it came into the limelight. The main argument is not about the players' performance but taking a look at the character. Brodeur is one person, as a hockey player, you shouldn't mess around with due to, what a surprise, respect. By doing that you aren't just disrespecting Brodeur but the entire Devils' organization. He is their leader, the face of their team. We all know Avery is a jerk, but Brodeur was well within his rights in doing so. This really shouldn't be an issue considering we won't see the Devils play until next season. Avery will soon understand the phrase what goes around comes around.

"As far as the Penguins fans are concerned, be careful what you wish for--you're probably goint to get the second-greatest Penguin of all time (Jagr) facing off against the third-greatest (Crosby) as the real focus here in the next round. Not on some sideshow created by silly trashtalkers like Gary Roberts and Sean Avery." What does this have anything to do with Brodeur and Avery? Every Pens fan already knows how fantastic Jagr play because we are eye-witnesses. Calling Gary Roberts a trash-talker is extremely stupid, though. Roberts is a veteran player who plays awesome all around. Don't ever, ever make a connection with the little punk up in NY who thinks it's funny to mess with his back-up goalie to Gary Roberts who is a leader and has many admirers among the National Hockey League.

 
At 6:37 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How does Brodeur's save pct. - as compared to the league seasonal average - compare to other goalies throughout history?

Overall, I think Brodeur is a bit overrated. There is some goalie website blog that rates goalies & jokingly refers to Marty as a 'fraud' :)

 
At 7:08 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Bethany said...

It's over. It's done. Get over it. Avery made an ass out of himself. Brodeur didn't shake his hand. The series is over, Rangers advance. Next topic.

 
At 7:21 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's rather comical when you think about it. Avery clearly doesn't respect Brodeur, as was evidenced by his constant trash talking about Brodeur's personal life, appearance, etc. Avery doesn't respect anyone, actually, except the image he sees in the mirror. And then he has the audacity to be upset about a snub from Brodeur? Unreal. I have played with guys like Avery - trust me, his own teammates can't stand him either. I'll guarantee this guy eats alone most nights on the road.

There are no NHL players towards whom I would advocate targeted violence except for one - Sean Avery. He disrespects the game and the players who built it to such a degree that it is criminal. To paraphrase Marc Crawford, he must pay the price, and I hope that one day, sooner rather than later, he does.

 
At 7:39 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

How does Brodeur's save pct. - as compared to the league seasonal average - compare to other goalies throughout history?

Good question. I'm not sure I buy in that save percentage is the be-all and end-all for measuring goaltenders, but it's certainly one way to do so. So let's go there.

It would taker a bunch of work to do goalie-over-goalie comparisons, but league averages are readily availble. Over the course of his 14-year career, Brodeur's save percentage of .913 compares favourably to the league average of .902. Here's his last 5 seasons as compared to league average:

2002-03: NHL .909, Brodeur .914
2003-04: NHL .909, Brodeur .917
2005-06: NHL .901, Brodeur .911
2006-07: NHL .905, Brodeur .922
2007-08: NHL .909, Brodeur .920

So pretty consistently .010 or so better than the league average, despite the fact that he has seen Ken Daneyko, Scott Stevens, Scott Niedermayer and Brian Rafalski depart his defence corps over those years without anything resembling equivalent replacements. So the argument that this guy just benefits from a great defence doesn't wash.

On the all-time lists Brodeur ranks 7th in save percentage, 8th in GAA, 2nd in shutouts, 2nd in wins. Note that's 2nd in career wins but 15th in losses. Across the board consistently good numbers year after year while playing 70-78 games per season. You can hate the guy all you like, but it's pretty hard to criticize his record.

 
At 8:01 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger mc79hockey said...

Here's his last 5 seasons as compared to league average:

Brodeur's last three years have been very good. You're forgetting that he saw a disproportionate amount of ES shots before that and the five years before the five you're citing don't look quite as good.

Basically, from about 97-98 through 03-04, he was a league average goalie int erms of save percentage IIRC.

 
At 8:04 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger ddawwidd said...

> I think it's pretty standard for visiting players to not go out on the ice for three stars, win or lose, isn't it? I can't recall ever seeing a visitor player skate out.

I wouldn't be so sure if they don't go... Maybe you're right. I remember that time rather well because it turned comical. It was his hometown, his parents (or father - don't remember) were in the stands and if I'm correct even CJAD wanted to do an interview with him - they couldn't do that. ;) But that's really not a big deal, just a memory that came up when I heard about "Handshakegate" ;)

 
At 8:06 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alanis Morrisette would find it ironical that on a post about sportsmanship, half the people who are ragging on Avery are advocating that somebody commit pre-meditated assault against him.
Good thing hockey builds character. I look forward to having your degenerate children in my workplace.

 
At 9:19 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Claire said...

I wonder if Avery would have attempted to shake hands with Brodeur if the Devils had won the series....that being said, Avery did what we all expected him to do. And I expect we'll see more of the same in Series 2.

 
At 9:27 PM, April 19, 2008, Blogger Lowetide said...

Fred Shero would have loved this thread. :-)

 
At 11:13 PM, April 19, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder would Sean Avery shake Jarret Stoll's hand after Stoll stole cougar Rachel Hunter from Avery?

Btw, Stoll and Hunter bought new digs in La-la-land for cool 5M.

 
At 12:50 AM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Mofo said...

You talk about Roberts or Rutuu going after Avery...what about this reunion for Avery and Laraque?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/10/14/avery_laroque051014.html

 
At 2:29 AM, April 20, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

Brodeur's last three years have been very good. You're forgetting that he saw a disproportionate amount of ES shots before that and the five years before the five you're citing don't look quite as good.

No, not quite as good, MC, merely very very good.

Basically, from about 97-98 through 03-04, he was a league average goalie int erms of save percentage IIRC.

Well, since you insist, here's the entire list. Brodeur's Sv% first, league average next, Brodeur better (+) or worse (-) than league last.

1993-1994 | 0.915 | 0.895 | +0.020
1994-1995 | 0.902 | 0.901 | +0.001
1995-1996 | 0.911 | 0.898 | +0.013
1996-1997 | 0.927 | 0.905 | +0.022
1997-1998 | 0.917 | 0.906 | +0.011
1998-1999 | 0.906 | 0.908 | -0.002
1999-2000 | 0.910 | 0.904 | +0.006
2000-2001 | 0.906 | 0.903 | +0.003
2001-2002 | 0.906 | 0.908 | -0.002
2002-2003 | 0.914 | 0.909 | +0.005
2003-2004 | 0.917 | 0.911 | +0.006
2005-2006 | 0.911 | 0.901 | +0.010
2006-2007 | 0.922 | 0.905 | +0.017
2007-2008 | 0.920 | 0.909 | +0.011
---------------------------------------------
14 seasons 0.913 | 0.902 | +0.011
---------------------------------------------

So two seasons he was .002 below the league average, the other 12 seasons he has been better than the league average, and in 7 of those by at least +.010. As mentioned in my earlier post, his career average is an impressive .011 better than league, equivalent to the pace he has maintained the last 5 years.

During the seven-year "mediocre" stretch you cite, he was +.004 or so above league average overall, while his goals against average ranged from 1.89 to 2.32. He generally faced fewer shots during those years while maintaining an excellent save percentage, a difficult feat. He also won two Stanley Cups, an Olympic gold medal, and a World Cup during this span, so it's not like he was off his game.

Yes I'm not accounting for "disporportionate amounts of ES shots", and maybe "normalizing" for that will make a difference of .002 or .004 or something, some years. But in the bigger picture, so what? His record is absolutely fantastic either way. I could split hairs too and talk about all the shots he never had to face because his puck retrieval, passing and rebound control are all far above average, contributing significantly to the lower numbers of shots against him without helping his save percentage one bit (tho' those skills are reflected in GAA and wins). It's pretty hard to measure a whole lot of that stuff, but it's easy to measure this: Martin Brodeur is one of the all time great netminders in the history of the game.

 
At 3:02 AM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brodeur doesn't respect Avery because he doesn't deserve it.
Avery doesn't respect anyone.
Is Avery effective in his role? - Yes, very.
Is Avery's role one the league should try to abolish by handing out unsportsmanlike conducts for? - Yes.
Is Avery a pussy who runs his mouth and then smirks as he hides behind the rulebook? - Yes.

 
At 3:23 AM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Throughout his career, Brodeur faced fewer powerplays than average... which probably helped his save pct quite a bit.

What is the avg save pct even-strength, as opposed to when facing a powerplay?

 
At 9:35 AM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Sevenmack said...

Decency and class isn't something you just show when you're dealing with people you think happen to be decent and classy, as my grandfather -- who died last month -- always told me. The real sign of both is shown when you're dealing with people you despise; if you can't deal decently and in a classy manner with people you think are nasty and vicious after the battle, then you yourself are nasty, vicious, indecent and unsportsmanlike.

Brodeur showed something on Friday that gives an insight into his character. It isn't pretty. And he's not classy. Or decent. Or sportsmanlike. Whether you like Avery or not (I happen to like what he does on the ice, not necessarily who he may be off it -- for which I cannot vouch, but he did attempt to shake Brodeur's hand), Brodeur showed us, as Patrick Roy consistently has done in the past, that being a great goaltender does not a classy, decent person make.

 
At 10:59 AM, April 20, 2008, Blogger mike said...

I notice Bruce offers no save percentages from Brodeur's last few playoff flops...why is that? Because they don't fit your thesis about how great he is? Even in their last Cup year the Devils had to fight off a poor playoff from their star goalie to defeat the Ducks in the Finals.

I don't think people have a problem with calling Marty a good goalie--it's more the idea that he is great (or worse yet, the best ever) that gets to me. He has never been the best goalie in the NHL during his long career--but he has always been in the top 5-10 netminders in the game during that stretch.

When the Devils have needed him to be their best player, he has let them down. Defenders of Brodeur consistently ignore the fact that the top 4 defensemen on the Devils for their Cup years completely outclassed any other top 4 D-men in the league...Roy or Richter or Hasek or Cujo would've won more Cups than Brodeur had they played for the Devils.

 
At 12:18 PM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous TJ said...

When Avery was acting like an idiot the other day in front of Marty, he should have done the honourable thing and smashed the puke in the face with his blocker.

Definitely. Kolzig certainly would have.

 
At 12:18 PM, April 20, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

I notice Bruce offers no save percentages from Brodeur's last few playoff flops...why is that? Because they don't fit your thesis about how great he is?

2002: .938
2003: .934
2004: .902
2006: .923
2007: .916
2008: .891

Terrible, obviously.

Even in their last Cup year the Devils had to fight off a poor playoff from their star goalie to defeat the Ducks in the Finals.

Said "poor playoff" consisted of a 1.65 GAA, a .934 Sv%, and an NHL record 7 playoff shutouts. Oh yeah, and 16 wins, including a shutout (his third of the series) in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

Not quite sure what he'd have to do to qualify for a "good playoff" in your books, Mike, but to me that qualifies.

 
At 1:09 PM, April 20, 2008, Blogger mike said...

He sucked this year, Bruce...and how about his wondrous finals against the Avalanche in '01 where he lost a 3-2 series lead and gave up three soft goals in a game 7? He was awful last year too in the postseason despite decent save percentages.

He's a guy who does it well in the regular season, and then doesn't have the same level of dominance in the playoffs. That is my point, jokes and wisecracks aside. Great goalies don't let in all the soft goals that he does in the playoffs--goalies who are merely good do. I can't understand why Devils fans don't get more dismayed by his inconsistency, honestly.

 
At 1:50 PM, April 20, 2008, Blogger Erica said...

the comment that caught my eyes was as follows, "avery stopped in line to shake brodeur's hand, brodeur did not acknowledge and skated past, thus lowering himself to whatever low level of sportsmanship he claims sean avery to be on."
sure, brodeur could have shook avreys hand after the constant personal babble that avery brought to the ice (which is highly unsportsmanlife) and after averys attempts at bringing the sport of basketball to the rink to simply show how classless he is; however a handshake is about sincerity, and obviously there is none between these two players. Just because the game is over, doesn't mean that avrey will be any less of a douche and brodeur should like him or respect him for his disgusting and classless ways. Typical Ranger

 
At 2:43 PM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It would be interesting to see how Brodeur's save pct. compares to the league average, not as a plus-minus difference but as a ratio of the league avg... & then compare this to other "top goalies".

It appears that over the last several yrs, Brodeur is generally above-avg w.r.t. save pct... but is he "great"?

 
At 3:12 PM, April 20, 2008, Blogger McLea said...

and after averys attempts at bringing the sport of basketball to the rink to simply show how classless he is

Ha, what the hell is that supposed to mean?

 
At 4:33 PM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Sevenmack said...

Sorry Erica, but a handshake has never been about sincerity. It's a greeting and a sign of being a good sport, plain and simple. Do you think Dino Ciccarelli was being sincere when he shook the hand of Claude Lemieux? Definitely not. But as with the handshake, courtesy and sportsmanship isn't about sincerity. It's about being a good sport, a decent person and a civilized member of society -- study your history and you will learn this to be true. Brodeur should have sucked it up and behaved decently. He didn't. And it's a mark on his record of character that he can never live down.

 
At 4:36 PM, April 20, 2008, Anonymous Sevenmack said...

Oh, and by the way, Erica: What do you mean by "typical Ranger." Seems like you've forgotten Andy Bathgate, Rod Gilbert, Adam Graves, Brian Leetch and plenty of folks who have never had been called douchebags by folks and are, in fact, considered some of the best and most honorable players in NHL history. As a Rangers fan, I must laugh; taking insult at that comment would be ridiculous since it reflects more on you than on the sports team you despise.

 
At 7:03 PM, April 20, 2008, Blogger mike said...

What Erica means by Avery being a "typical Ranger" is that he was on a Ranger team that defeated the Devils in a playoff series when the two teams went head-to-head.

To be a Ranger against the Devils in the playoffs means that you have won four out of five overall series, after all. Therefore the logical extension of her comment is that Avery is a typical Ranger because he was a member of a team that defeated the Devils in the playoffs.

Who said Devils fans are irrational? This logic is pretty sound.

 
At 9:12 PM, April 20, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

He's a guy who does it well in the regular season, and then doesn't have the same level of dominance in the playoffs.

Funny thing, Mike, the Devils are such a powerhouse they have never once won the President's Trophy, yet have won three Stanley Cups during Brodeur's tenure.

If you were making such a claim about underachieving in the playoffs about a goalie for, say, the Red Wings, who have 6 President's Trophies compared to "just" 3 Stanley Cups in the last decade and a half, it might be credible. As it is, Brodeur's ability to backstop underdog teams to the Stanley Cup is in my mind a testament to clutch goaltending.

1995: 9th overall, started on the road in all four series including a four-game sweep of the President's Trophy-winning Red Wings in the Finals. 2 goals or fewer against in 16 out of 16 New Jersey wins.

2000: 4th overall. Came from 3-1 down in Conference Finals by beating Philly 4-1, 2-1, and 2-1, inc. Games 5 and 7 right in Philadelphia. Beat defending champions Dallas in Finals, allowing 1 goal in each of last four games. Lost Game 5 1-0 in triple OT, but bounced back to take the Cup right in Dallas, 2-1 in double OT.

2003: 4th overall. Beat the President's Trophy winners 3-2 right in Ottawa in Game 7 to take the East, then posted three shutouts in Finals including Game 7.

I can't understand why Devils fans don't get more dismayed by his inconsistency, honestly.

I have to hand it to you, Mike, I laughed out loud when I read that one. Honestly.

I'm neither a Devils fan or a Rangers fan, I just like good hockey. Marty Brodeur has been providing it, consistently, for 15 years.

 
At 11:52 AM, April 21, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Erica: Since you're so fond of sweeping generalizations, here's one for you to try on for size (don't worry, I had the neck let out): Women who think they know about hockey are "cute."

And I mean that in only the most patronizing way...

 
At 12:41 PM, April 21, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

Forgot one:

Active Olympic champions (starters):
Brodeur 1
Holmqvist 1
Hasek 1


Khabibulin 1 (CIS, 1992)

 
At 3:30 PM, April 21, 2008, Blogger mike said...

Again, Bruce, if Brodeur was great the Devils would've won anywhere from three to four Cups consecutively somewhere in the nineties or aughts. This guy's resume is littered with first-round exits to subpar goalies. Laugh all you want--for every triumph you list you omit his failures against Ottawa, Pittsburgh, the Rangers (three series losses in four tries), and his paramount awful performance in the Finals against the Avs in 2001.

Again, my point is not that Marty is a terrible goalie, but that he is not the greatest netminder of his generation. He's not even a dominant netminder, particularly since the goalie puckhandling rules have changed.

 
At 4:56 PM, April 21, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Brodeur was such an *amazing* puckhandler, you'd think he'd be getting 10+ assists per game, & a goal every few seasons.

This yr: 77 games played, 4 assists. Whoopee.

 
At 4:57 PM, April 21, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction: Brodeur would be getting 10+ assists per SEASON, not game! :)

 
At 5:05 PM, April 21, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

if Brodeur was great the Devils would've won anywhere from three to four Cups consecutively somewhere in the nineties or aughts ... he is not the greatest netminder of his generation.

Mike, no goalie has won three to four consecutive Cups since Billy Smith. Here's the short list of "greatest goalies of his generation" with some temporal overlap:

Roy: 1986, 1993, 1996, 2001
Brodeur: 1995, 2000, 2003
Belfour: 1999
Hasek: 2002
Joseph: none

This guy's resume is littered with first-round exits to subpar goalies.

They all are, Mike. It's the nature of the beast. Last year's J-S Giguere turns into this year's J-S Giguere.

his paramount awful performance in the Finals against the Avs in 2001.

You keep harping on that. The Devils were the last defenidng champs to make it anywhere near the Finals, they got a 3-2 lead in the series and scored exactly 1 goal in the last 2 games. So sure, blame the goalie, if the bum were any damn good he would have won that last game 1-0. He lost Game 7 to Patrick Roy and the Avalanche, 3-1 in Denver. For shame.

He's not even a dominant netminder, particularly since the goalie puckhandling rules have changed.

Say what? It's been well-established above that he's had three excellent seasons since the lockout and the rule change (which were largely established because of Brodeur's proficiency as a sweeper). The new rules limited one of his defining skills, so what happened? His shots against went up, and his save percentage went up.

 
At 6:07 PM, April 21, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone who watched Game 5 would know that the Devils tried to beat the crap out of Avery all game. They knocked him down five or six times in the first period alone, and the only result was that he set up a Rangers goal anyway.

Avery is the guy you love to have on your team, but hate when he's on any other team.

 
At 7:13 PM, April 21, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

If Brodeur was such an *amazing* puckhandler, you'd think he'd be getting 10+ assists per [season], & a goal every few seasons.

Well he does have a goal, in the playoffs against Montreal, I think he was the first ever to score a goal and get a shutout in the same game. Only Ron Hextall (2) has more than one, inc. regular season and playoffs.

As for assists, a little context please. The goalie is a sweeper, his role is to get the puck to a teammate in a good position to get the puck out, first, and into the offensive zone, second. Even when they take it end to end and score, usually at least three guys touch the puck along the way. So goalie assists are rare, so rare in fact that it's hard to find records of them.

The league has plenty of defensive defencemen (e.g. Douglas Murray, Kurt Sauer, Chris Chelios, Bryce Salvador) who are good at clearing the zone but collect few points. It's not their function. Even though they are allowed to go over centre and even handle the puck in the offensive zone, they still don't get many points. So how the heck is a goalie supposed to from below the hash marks?

Answer: if he plays on a strong offensive team, esp. one with high-powered teammates who can go end-to-end on their own. Tom Barrasso is the career assist leader (48), largely because he played with Coffey, Murphy, Lemieux, Francis and Jagr. Grant Fuhr is the single season record holder (14), who played with Coffey, Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Anderson, all guys who could score on the rush.

Marty Brodeur meanwhile plays with Colin White, Jay Pandolfo and Sergei Brylin. Yes I exaggerate to make my point, but I hardly need to. The Devils have rarely been an offensive juggernaut; only once in Brodeur's career have they had a 90-point scorer, and only twice has their leading scorer averaged a point per game. They were a high-scoring team from 1998-2002 (not coincidentally, the seasons Brodeur's Sv% seemed a little lower than usual), and Brodeur racked up 13 of his 31 career assists during that span. Even with that four-year run the Devils have been below league average production in 8 of Brodeur's 14 seasons. Of course, they have allowed fewer than the average number of goals against in 14 out of 14 seasons ...

 
At 7:17 PM, April 21, 2008, Blogger Bruce said...

This guy's resume is littered with first-round exits to subpar goalies.

Did a bit more research on this, Mike (not that it's ever going to convince you). Here's Brodeur's career record by round:

Made/missed playoffs: 13-1
First round: 8-5
Second round: 5-3
Conference Finals: 4-1
Stanley Cup Finals: 3-1

As usual, positive numbers right across the board. Overall, 20-10, .667 in playoff series; and if you accept my method of considering the regular season as a "preliminary round" -- it is, after all, the first of 5 levels where a team can be eliminated from contention -- that's 33-11, .750. It's only 3 Cups in 14 years, granted, but in a 30-team league that's about two and a half Cups more than the expected rate. Only Detroit can claim a similar success rate, while 23 teams have not won a single Cup in that span. So Brodeur's record is one of "failure" that only looks good when you compare it to everybody else's record of even more failure.

 
At 2:39 PM, April 22, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um did one of you say has a happy marriage?? Um, what rock have you been living under? He was banging' his wife's sister?? That's a real swell guy....

I think Avery hating is getting to be a bit much and it only does one thing, bring up the stock of Sean Avery. So, all of you that can't stand him are only do him a favor by publicizing him.

The Avery role is not something new and the Devils had Claude Lemiuex who was much worse; sneakier and weasily. The best was when Cam Neely grabbed him by the neck, through him into the board on to the ice and beat the crap out of him.

There is so much crap that goes on in hockey to start finger pointing is moot. What about all the times Henrik got sprayed? That becomes juvenile when you're a Pee Wee. Ever notice that whenever these guys fall down near each other one tries to use the other as leverage to get up, you think that's by coincidence? No, it's intentional. Ever see them knock each other's helmets off, again intentional.

Until then, Avery did not break any rule. As a matter fact, many thought the play was dumb because his back was exposed to the puck-if he got hit in the back of the leg with a blast, he's not walking for a long time and by not watching the puck, would not have the opportunity to knock in a rebound (which didn't matter, because he scored anyway).

At least Avery is who he is, Marty is phony whiny little bitch

 
At 6:16 PM, April 22, 2008, Blogger I Have Kasparaitis said...

What does the man's personal life have to do with playing? I don't care about Brodeur's personal life, but that comment was a real low-blow. Sure Avery didn't break a rule, but it was juvenile and disrespectful. I don't give a damn about how their personal life is because it's none of our business, but if Avery is doing that, Brodeur doesn't have to shake his hand. He didn't have to shake his hand and Avery didn't have to say anything about the no-shake. So what neither of them are acting "mature" in your minds. They both sent a message to one another. Avery: "I'm a jerk and am going to bend the rules so I can annoy the hell out of you." and Brodeur's "If you don't have the decency to play like a real man, I'm not going to shake your hands like one."

 
At 7:51 AM, August 09, 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brodeur : YES
Avery: NO

In Europe this Guy (gay) would never play!

That`s no hockey that`s Hollywood

GO DEVILS!

 

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